607 Transcript

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (01:19)
Hey folks, welcome back to the podcast. Really excited to be here with you, as always. And especially because today’s conversation is centering around a topic that comes up a lot in my consultation, in the membership, and in the Facebook group. And that topic is how do I build and grow a virtual assessment practice? And my guest today is the perfect person to be talking about this topic, Dr. Taylor Day.

She has been doing this now for several years and takes us on her journey of building a virtual practice, an entirely virtual practice. So Dr. Taylor Day is a licensed psychologist. She specializes in neuroaffirming care for autistic children and their families, including very early diagnosis and high masking presentations. She has a PhD in clinical psychology and is the founder and CEO of Dr. Tay Concierge Clinical Care and Dr. Tay Coaching.

Her work integrated the whole family approach, which is a framework she developed utilizing evidence-informed principles after seeing significant gaps in autism care. Dr. Tay’s passion for child psychology and her focus on autism are in many ways tied to her own personal experience growing up with a brother who was diagnosed at 23 months of age. So Taylor has a personal connection here, as you can see.

And as you’ll learn during the conversation, she has taken an approach to this practice building that is a little bit out of the box. So we talk about her journey to build a virtual practice, how she started, how it started, and the progression that she went through. She talks about how she has relied on and leveraged social media in various forms to build this virtual practice. we talk about the mindset, some of the shifts and challenges that came up in building a virtual practice.

We talk about setting fees in the virtual practice and how you do that when there’s no quote-unquote local market to anchor off of. And of course, we talk about the clinical components of the virtual practice.

So she walks us through her testing approach and setup and structure, the measures that she uses, how she conducts assessments, delivers feedback, etc. And we talk about many other things.

So if there is any part of you that has wondered, you know, how do I do more virtual assessment or how do I build an entirely virtually virtual practice, this is a fantastic podcast. There’s a lot to take away from this. And that said, despite everything that we cover here, there is even more to this, of course. So Dr. Tay is doing an upcoming CE presentation in November. And you can find the link to that in the show notes if you want to go deeper and learn.

More and get even more of the nuances and sort of nuts and bolts of this whole process. So definitely check that out. She’s been super responsive in the past, you know, when I’ve sent people her way to a consult as well. So she’s providing a ton of resources and knowledge and value, I think, for our field in this area of virtual practice. So with that, let’s get to my conversation with Dr. Taylor Day.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (04:34)
Taylor, hey, welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Tay (04:36)
Thanks so much for having me. Excited to be here.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (04:38)
Yeah, yeah. Excited to have you here for a couple of reasons. I mean, I’ve seen your name. You’re like one of those online people, you know, I’ve seen your name a million times. And I think we’ve like ha you know, cross commented on posts and stuff like that and have some mutual friends. So good to meet you in person for the first time. yeah.

Dr. Tay (04:53)
Yeah. So nice to meet you. And yeah, I love, you know, everything you have in your Facebook community. I love being in there. And that’s, you know, I think that’s how we got connected. And like you said, we do have some overlap as well.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (05:07)
Sure. Yeah. Well thanks for being a part of it. Yeah. And then

Dr. Tay (05:09)
Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (05:10)
Of course, you know, I’m excited to talk to you about this topic of having an entirely virtual practice. There are

Dr. Tay (05:16)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (05:16)
So many questions about this. It comes up a lot like in my consulting and membership and stuff. And, you know, people are always wondering, like, how do I do this? And does it make sense? And so I’m hoping we can dig into lots of facets of virtual practice.

Dr. Tay (05:31)
Absolutely.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (05:32)
Yeah. So I usually start with this question, you know, some version of why this is important to you. So maybe I’ll I’ll I’ll tweak it just a little bit for this context and ask, you know, why it was important for you to move into a virtual only practice. Like why was that compelling for you?

Dr. Tay (05:49)
Yeah, I think when I first opened a practice, I didn’t realize I was gonna be fully virtual. I actually was

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (05:55)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (05:55)
Living in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania at the time and I was doing some in-person sessions, but it was really about designing my practice in a way that I felt truly served families

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (06:07)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (06:08)
and getting to work with them in a really in-depth way.

And so then what naturally started to happen is once I discovered SciPac, I was like, wait, like I can help families in all these different states. It doesn’t just at the time I was only licensed in Pennsylvania, it doesn’t just need to be in Pennsylvania. And I think it just like organically developed where I was like, this is so cool to be able to look into a family’s home, see what their real life is like.

It created a lot of accessibility I really ended up liking it. I mean, I’m sure we’ll get more into this later, but like I did in person testing forever.

I actually think I get better results through virtual and or at least comparable results.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (06:53)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (06:53)
And I just started to love it so much and realized what was possible. And I think it was the accessibility piece. And then it just organically happened that I built this sci-pack practice that, you know.

People are all across the country and that’s what I kept rolling with.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (07:09)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, there’s a lot that we are, I think we can get into from just that little intro. But yeah, I mean, I I I got a lot of experience with virtual testing, primarily during COVID, you know, like a lot of us did, I think. And

Dr. Tay (07:21)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (07:23)
With the virtual autism assessments, I was doing the teleasd peeds protocol.

Dr. Tay (07:28)
Yep. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (07:30)
And I’m right with you. Actually, I feel like I got really good information, maybe even better information seeing kids in their own home.

Than bringing them here to the office, which was a little more of a sterile environment. You know, I got to see them like playing with their own toys and in their own space and with their, you know, just being more comfortable, I suppose. and that was really valuable. So I can definitely identify with that.

Dr. Tay (07:52)
Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (07:53)
Yeah, so I’m curious how kind of how it moved from in person to virtual. You know, like was this a gradual progression? Was it overnight? Was it a conscious decision? Like by X date, I’m gonna go all virtual. Like, yeah, how how was the transition? That’s interesting to me.

Dr. Tay (08:13)
Yeah, so a little bit of backstory. So I was on postdoc at the University of Pittsburgh. I was actually on a T32. So all of my graduate training, I was like, I am a researcher through and through. I am not a clinician.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (08:25)
Mm.

Dr. Tay (08:27)
I had zero desire to become a clinician.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (08:30)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (08:31)
And I think a lot of that is because I had done clinical work in these, you kind of rigid models, and I didn’t love.

Clinical work in that form.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (08:42)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (08:44)
But what ended up happening is I got a lot of exposure to, like, I had hired my own business coach and got to see the coaching side of things, where people aren’t operating under licenses and, like, how they do things. And it started getting my brain going of, well, how can I build a practice, you know, that maybe isn’t the status quo, but still is within ethical and legal guidelines of.

Course that, you know, really serves me as a clinician and my capacity also serves my clients. And I started doing research because I knew I wanted to leave academia. And I was like, how do I make this possible? And that’s when I discovered SciPac. So I actually didn’t start testing right away. I messaged, I was chatting with this mom and I was talking about like her supporting herself.

And she was like, I really just need support for my kid. I was like, well, I’m thinking about starting a practice. And I just kind of winged it from there. I was like, okay, I’m licensed. I’m I can apply to SciPack. Like once that goes through, then we can start. And I like kind of just put the paperwork together. And that was my first client. And then the second client actually was an in-person Pittsburgh plant client. I had done the testing through the medical system. And

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (09:59)
Uh-huh.

Dr. Tay (10:00)
Then realized like they needed therapy support. So it started as a therapy focused practice. but I had also done during COVID, I was working, you know, in a academic medical center, and basically our schedules were full. It was like, and you’re not allowed to cancel, like these kids still need to be seen. We have to figure out virtual.

And so I think it was the bridge of kind of just wanting to do things differently, but then also realizing that there was an avenue to do it and then having the experience. And so then when I started testing, I was like, okay, I want to get back to evaluations. I love evaluations like the most. I love like

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (10:40)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (10:40)
figuring it all out. I

I think at that point I was like, I’d already been doing virtual testing. And then I started looking into measures that were possible because I already had SciPack. And I just was like, let’s do this. And I didn’t, you know, at the time, like I was just building this. I wasn’t getting, I didn’t ever have an in person clinic. I still don’t to this day. And it just

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (11:02)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (11:03)
it was little by little I took each step. And I think sometimes I would say that, and I see this, I’ll do consultation with people.

They overthink every single thing, right? Like everything, all the

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (11:15)
Totally agree.

Dr. Tay (11:16)
circumstances have to be perfect before I do this. And of course, we need the baseline knowledge, but at the same point, like you gotta be willing to just jump in and figure it out. And I take a model where I am very transparent with the families that I work with too, you know? And so like I would say.

Things like, hey, I’m still figuring out this virtual model. I feel confident in my clinical, you know, decision making if I need to do more sessions to figure this out. But they they knew it was a newer practice. But I think at the same point, because it came with such a collaborative energy, they were willing to try it out. They had also most of the families I work with have gone through the traditional medical systems and felt very neglected. They have felt very dismissed.

And so I think they’re also open minded in that way.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (12:09)
Yeah, yeah. I just as a side note, I mean th I think that’s a great thing to pull from this conversation already, is just like being transparent in your practice model, whatever that entails, goes a really long way. Like we don’t have to have it all put together and

Dr. Tay (12:23)
Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (12:24)
know everything from the very beginning. So I hope that

Dr. Tay (12:26)
Exactly.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (12:27)
folks can pay attention to that. So you were kind of building it as as you were flying, it sounds like.

Dr. Tay (12:32)
I really was. Yeah. And I I started a few months before I left academia. I had to let them know I was on a T32. So I had to finish out my contract. because otherwise I would have had a payback clause. so they

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (12:43)
Okay.

Dr. Tay (12:44)
knew I was leaving. they were trying to get me to stay in different capacities. And I was like, I literally was like, I have to trust myself in this. Like I know I can go and find, you know, a contract position or come back to the medical system.

I’ll be honest, I didn’t know how I was gonna pay my bills. Like it was, it was risky, but I I

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (13:02)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (13:04)
had so much belief in the need was there. And I was fortunate in that, like I had for different reasons worked with, you know, on the coaching side, gotten some of the business knowledge. but there was a a a jump. And then once I got those first two clients, that was the overlap with the end of academia. I do it after work hours and then.

I was like, okay, I can build this. So I got those little indicators and I was like, I can do this. And I just, yeah, I rolled with it at that point.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (13:34)
Yeah, yeah. That’s great. there’s always a leap. There’s always a leap. Unless

Dr. Tay (13:37)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (13:38)
you have one of those unicorn scenarios somehow where you just plug into a full practice somehow. I still don’t know what that looks like exactly, but yeah.

Dr. Tay (13:45)
Yeah, exactly.

And I would just to be clear, like I was taking on therapy clients. It might not have been

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (13:50)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (13:51)
my ideal practice, but I knew

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (13:53)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (13:54)
that would get me to the next step. I knew I wanted evaluations. That took a little bit of time for me to figure out like all

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (14:00)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (14:01)
of the logistics, all of the marketing, all of that. And so it’s

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (14:05)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (14:05)
Like, my practice has pivoted so many times; it’s been like four years at this point. Like

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (14:12)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (14:13)
I’ve pivoted in so many different ways too.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (14:16)
Mm, yeah, yeah. Another good lesson. Yeah, you have to be flexible when it’s needed. Right. So

Dr. Tay (14:21)
Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (14:21)
you started primarily with therapy. you got a couple of clients, it sounds like one was local or both were local somehow and then, you know.

Dr. Tay (14:28)
One was local, one was through like I had a social media already and I was chatting with a bomb. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (14:33)
Okay. Yeah,

Yeah, gotcha. And then how did it progress from there? I mean, were did you primarily build with therapy and remotely, or were there more in person clients over those first, you know, several months?

Dr. Tay (14:46)
Yeah, I ended up having two in-person clients. The one that was client number two, though, was doing more of an intensive model. Just that one actually, this was not planned. I was sitting in a session giving a diagnostic feedback. This family had heard from the front desk that I was leaving this system. And the mom said, Well, how do we keep working with you? I worked

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (15:09)
Okay.

Dr. Tay (15:09)
in a system that didn’t have a non compete

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (15:12)
Okay.

Dr. Tay (15:12)
Because it was a nonprofit sector through even through the medical system. So they were able to follow me. But I literally was like, okay, let me get back to you of what this could look like. It was, I don’t even the kid wasn’t even two at the time. So it was like an intensive early intervention model. But I share this story because what I said to them is, okay, you want to work with me.

Give me a little bit and I’ll send you the information. And then I went back and I put a package together for them of like,

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (15:44)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (15:44)
hey, I can come to his school and I can do in home and it looks like this. And the first time I wrote this package, it was for 12 weeks, right? Like a 12-week

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (15:53)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (15:54)
early intervention model. But some of it is like, I didn’t a hundred percent know what I was doing either, but it was just like

Asking, making connections, figuring it out, but also reminding myself that this didn’t have to be my final model. And this family ended up working with me, I think for two plus years before they moved out of state. but it was like winging it and putting it together. And so then I got, I think I got a few more therapy clients at that point. I built pretty much all of my practice from social media though.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (16:28)
Okay.

Dr. Tay (16:28)
So we can definitely

Talk about the different ways that I did that.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (16:33)
Yeah, yeah. Why don’t we go ahead and go into that? Cause I know I’m tempted to push it back and, you know, try to organize the material a little bit more, but I think people are just people are going to be interested in that. So tell me how that folded into your practice, in your marketing, especially given, I mean, you said you built your entire practice from it, essentially.

Dr. Tay (16:55)
Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (16:55)
So yeah, how did that work?

Dr. Tay (16:57)
So I want to start backwards so people understand where I’m at now. So I would say the primary, like a huge part of my referrals come from Instagram. I have,

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (17:07)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (17:08)
you know, I’ve built a good following. I do a lot of autism education. I have my own autism podcasts too.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (17:14)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (17:15)
but that was not in the beginning. I did not have the following that I do now. And that takes time.

And I had already learned some of the side of social media. So I was able to apply like, how do you make an Instagram real? How do you make a carousel? But I think a lot of times people hear building a practice on social media, they think they’re gonna start posting and getting clients right away. And that’s

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (17:37)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (17:38)
it’s not realistic. And so I think keeping that in mind, that you have to be willing, I would say, to commit for a minimum of six months of consistent.

Posting and lots of education, lots like lots of offers before you’re pitching people. you know,

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (17:55)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (17:56)
and so I would do like lots on like autism diagnostic criteria. I would do, you know, what I was conceptually without like keeping confidentiality, but like what was the topic I taught in therapy that day, you know, just talking about, you know, what the different types of therapy for autism. Everything is autism focused for me.

But what I did in the beginning is so I was doing that, but that’s not where I was getting clients. I was going into Facebook groups. I joined a bunch of them. So I joined

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (18:25)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (18:26)
the SciPac one. I joined your Facebook group. And

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (18:29)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (18:30)
then I also looked at local Facebook groups. Like, you know, even if I wasn’t located there, like I’m in the DC Facebook group, and I cannot tell you how many clients I get through the DMV area. And I don’t even think it’s fully at this point that Facebook.

Community, but I was looking, you know, and thinking, and it being private pay, I was looking at, you know, different markets, you know, where were they more leaning towards that private pay market? and so I would just like be on like it was part of my job, like be on, you know, social media, be on Facebook, I’d see a pop, you know, a post pop up and I would pitch myself, right? Over

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (19:10)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (19:11)
and over and over again. And there’s so many times

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (19:13)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (19:13)
that.

I would never hear anything, but you never

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (19:16)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (19:16)
know. And then a a a family would call. I’d be like, How did you find me? That is one thing I really recommend as a private practice owner. You need to ask your clients where they are finding you, like and be tracking that and get really specific with them. And they’d be like, so and so told me I think they found you on Facebook. So that was really the big piece. And then I start kept like building my my like.

personal social media over time. And then of course I was still networking, right? Like I’d get on virtual like coffee calls with people and get to know them and, you know, build up that referral-based side. And I would say at this point, like I do have a lot of referrals that come from other providers or that come from even clients themselves because they’ve had a good experience.

But I would say Facebook was really the place that started to help initially grow the practice.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (20:12)
That’s great. Yeah. I have two questions that come to mind. The first is maybe just a projection of my own experience and our Facebook group here. But I wonder if you ever got any pushback from local providers who are in person when you’re posting in these groups. Cause we again, full disclosure, like, you know, we have a local Facebook group and their like virtual only practices will post in our group. And I have this reaction, you know, I’m like,

Don’t encroach on our group. Like, you know, this is

Dr. Tay (20:41)
Mm.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (20:41)
our little network. Like we don’t want like conglomerate, whatever virtual pre and that’s not what you are, obviously. But I’m

Dr. Tay (20:46)
Yeah. Right. Right.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (20:48)
just curious, like if you ever gotten any like questions or pushback from, you know, quote unquote local practitioners.

Dr. Tay (20:54)
Yeah, I mean, I will say I don’t think directly, but I’ve heard the pushback of like in general about virtual practices.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (21:04)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (21:04)
you know, what’s possible? Is it gonna be as good of care?

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (21:08)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (21:09)
you know, and like some of that conversation has come up of being like, like I know like California is not in SciPack, and that’s been a huge conversation about why California is not in SciPack. And there’s lots of reasons that we don’t need to get into. But

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (21:23)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (21:24)
from California clinicians, I’ve heard them say like, well, no, like, you know, it it’s saturated enough. Like we need to keep like it distinct. And I’m like, I do get that. But I also think I come from such an abundance mindset with business in general, of there are so many people that need help out there. And you know,

Personality and approach and all of that comes into play. And I just, I don’t really view it as taking from someone, you know, like local practitioners have something I can’t offer, which is,

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (21:58)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (21:58)
you know, meeting face to face. And there absolutely are families that would prefer to meet face to face. You know, they don’t want

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (22:05)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (22:05)
to even consider virtual. and so I think it’s really positioning your practice of like, what can you do?

For that individual client and not really worrying about what everyone else is doing. I I find in our field we get really stuck on this of like, well, everyone else is doing it this way, or I was trained to do it this way. And I’m like, yes, and there are other amazing ways to be able to do things too.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (22:33)
Yeah, that’s such a good point. I feel like we could spend a lot of time on that, but I just we’ll just like highlight it for now because I think that general principle goes a long way. Yes. Yeah.

Dr. Tay (22:42)
For sure.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (22:42)
So my other question with that is when you say that you have built a network of providers, I’m curious what networking, quote unquote, looks like around the country. You know, like how what providers are you connecting with and how does that logistically work when you’re drawing, you know, from

All these different states.

Dr. Tay (23:02)
Okay, I love this question because I think this is highly underrated. And yes, it takes more time for us as practitioners, but I like to think about it. It is also marketing in and of itself.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (23:12)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (23:13)
If I have a client and they have other providers they are working with. So autistic kids usually have speech, OT, psychiatry.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (23:21)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (23:22)
Even for a while I was doing it with pediatricians. I would ask, and it would absolutely be in benefit of that client.

I would ask them, can I connect with your other providers? And so they would sign a release. They would be so on board. They loved the care coordination and the integration. But what would happen is through that conversation, then other providers would be like, okay, so what are you doing? What type of supports do you offer? And it’s just like that natural way of communicating. So starting to like branch out from who are your current clients and who are they working with? Because those are probably

Also like-minded providers and they need referral sources. So that’s one. I love to think of the outside of like psychology or even mental health therapists, although I do a lot of networking there too. But what are the other types of prescrip providers that your client is seeing? Psychiatry is always a good one. A lot of times, you know, psychiatry is involved in some way. but

Like again, speech and OT were a really big one for me. And then I would go into like neurodiversity affirming groups and like connect with people that way. I would just like look for, you know, also through my Instagram, then I would have those providers following me. So I’d reach out and connect. And I did a lot more of this early on in my practice. My bandwidth has gotten a little thinner now, so I can’t hop on a call with everyone, but

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (24:49)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (24:49)
that would be a really big one. And then

Honestly, too though, even other psychologists who are doing exactly what you’re doing. This comes back to the abundance mindset. You just never know. Like I had, I had someone a psychologist I actually think I connected with through your Facebook community,

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (25:08)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (25:09)
hired me to help her understand virtual testing. We did a consult.

She’s up. I my understanding is she’s up and running and doing it. She recently sent me a referral. And, you know, she didn’t feel like she was the the best fit for them. And they ended up working with me. And it’s it’s been a great fit too. And so I think even that, like, we we can’t see it as competition. Like you just never

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (25:33)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (25:34)
know how it’s gonna ripple. It could be it’s someone’s niece and they can’t see them. So they send them

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (25:39)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (25:39)
your way, and then that creates a spider web effect of

That family then refers you someone else. It really is this additive process.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (25:48)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I couldn’t agree with you more. I feel like I’ve been saying for years that we need to connect with other people who do testing and, you know, have a good network of similar providers. And it seems counterintuitive, but I’m right with you. I think it’s ultimately super beneficial. And, you know, that process of doing collateral calls with other providers, it’s like the perfect one two punch of clinical utility and marketing, right? because you get good information about the client, but then you’re also

Connecting with other providers. Yeah. It’s fantastic.

Dr. Tay (26:18)
Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (26:20)
Gotcha. Okay. So this, I’m glad that we’re talking about this. Like I had it completely different in my mind where I was thinking you were in like consultation groups maybe with other providers, you know, around the country or something. But it’s really just you’re just you’re doing what we all do, but just remotely. Like when you do an eval, you reach out to the other providers and then that builds the, yeah, the awareness.

Dr. Tay (26:41)
Yeah.

And I think that’s exactly the thing. I think you can build any practice you want with these these marketing approaches. I think the

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (26:47)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (26:48)
one advantage that I have of not being local is then when I go on Instagram, I’m not trying to reach a local

Community, right? I

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (26:56)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (26:56)
can practice. I forget how many states SciPac is at this point. It’s like 43, I think.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (27:00)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Tay (27:01)
Right. So I have a larger reach that comes from my Instagram, but it’s it is

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (27:06)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (27:07)
really fascinating. I Ohio’s a really big one, like the DMV area is really big for me. Obviously, Pennsylvania, because I was previously licensed there. But it’s funny

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (27:16)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (27:17)
like how they kind of clump. And I don’t, I don’t know why, other than sometimes

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (27:21)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (27:21)
people refer other people.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (27:24)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (27:24)
But yeah, I think it is like not overthinking like the virtual piece. like you can market and network your with other providers in the same exact way.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (27:35)
Yeah, yeah. That’s really cool. going back to the Instagram thing, I mean, you you said that that was a very slow build, but it sounds like it was also a very deliberate build.

Dr. Tay (27:46)
Correct.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (27:47)
yes. So tell me about that. I mean, one thing you said and I just wanted to pull out was you have to post consistently for at least six months. So what does that mean consistently?

Dr. Tay (30:22)
Yeah, it doesn’t mean every day, but like you need to pick a schedule you’re sitting to, right? You can’t put up one post and

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (30:30)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (30:30)
every couple weeks and hope you’re gonna get clients off of that.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (30:34)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (30:35)
this is a big, you know, th th there’s a lot that now I have built out and I’m always happy to share, but I don’t also want to overwhelm people. Like

I have different resources people can feed into, right? Like they have my podcast, I’ll promote that. Then they hear that I do this and then they come back around and that nurtures them. You know, I have something called the Autism Traits Guide, which is breaking down, you know, it’s $7, but breaking down all diagnostic criteria with tons of parent-friendly examples of like how

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (31:08)
Mm.

Dr. Tay (31:08)
this presents, right? And then there’s an email sequence that that they get nurtured.

So there’s lots that now go on behind the scene. And so, but realizing, and you might hear about these things, you can build these things over over time. But I think even starting with two things is pick a schedule, a couple days a week where you know you are posting, but not everything is a pitch. Not everything is come work with me. It’s let me just tell you about this.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (31:37)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (31:39)
And starting there and just like

Really think about putting your energy out to educate.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (31:45)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (31:45)
That builds them trusting you, knowing you, liking you. Like those factors are important, you know, especially

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (31:53)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (31:54)
if people are using social media to find a provider, they want those factors in before they’re gonna reach out to you.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (32:00)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (32:01)
The other simple thing that you could do, you know, is figuring out like.

What are simple ways to be able to continue in a deeper way beyond like an Instagram algorithm? what I started with was actually my own Facebook community. And again,

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (32:19)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (32:19)
it’s not clinically focused, but it’s more of a close thing, like they join it, so they’re getting more notifications, but I provide kind of a little bit deeper and more consistent education over there.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (32:32)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (32:32)
I would go live and do a little bit of like QA and like I’m always super clear like this is not clinical advice, like it’s educational. so that that is a difference, but is there a way you can nurture them in a little bit deeper of a way so that they they’re more likely to see your posts? and then they keep hearing like, like I do assessments if you need your child evaluated, like I could be a resource for that.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (32:58)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (32:59)
You don’t need all the fancy things right now. but I would say start with the consistency of just like educating about whatever areas you’re testing on, you know, like helping parents or helping adults themselves to understand this and even know if we’re talking about like testing in particular, helping educate them, how do they know if they need an evaluation or not? I think that’s a missing gap so much between.

People who are looking, like struggling and what we do. And so many like pediatricians, for example, often refer to like developmental pediatricians or neurologists. They don’t even know the world of psychology is there. So even niching in and saying, I’m just gonna help people understand why do you do an evaluation?

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (33:48)
Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, there’s a lot of good stuff here. Yes. Did you set out to build this Instagram account knowing that you were trying to attract clients?

Dr. Tay (33:58)
Yes and no. I did, but I also knew I wanted it to be more than just attracting clients too. Like I think one of my things is being, you know, out of network with insurance. I am always like trying to balance like what are ways that I can give back and, you know, help people even if they can’t directly afford my services. But I knew, you know, that it was twofold that I’d be able to.

educate and provide neurodiversity affirming information. But then in turn that people would also want to work with me. So I think it really was twofold and it remains twofold to this day, even more so on the education side. It’s something that I feel like really passionate about and I’m trying to slowly build, you know, bigger and bigger, which is why I have all these different avenues.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (34:47)
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. how did you work through or acknowledge the vulnerability of just being online and sharing

Dr. Tay (34:55)
Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (34:55)
opinions about potentially controversial topics?

Dr. Tay (34:59)
It’s hard. I mean, I think this sounds like a cop-out answer, but going to therapy myself was really helpful for this, you know, like

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (35:07)
Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Tay (35:09)
working through, like I ended up discovering because this is not how I was trained, but internal family systems or IFS and parts work.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (35:15)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (35:17)
And realizing that what I was experiencing while being public and trying to build this was actually just a representation of

Of like the these parts of me that I was struggling with broadly. And so it really was working on better understanding myself, supporting myself, you know, knowing how to process this, not avoiding my feelings about this. Cause the irony is that when we don’t put ourselves out there, we’re actually just avoiding the discomfort of that and the feelings of that. You know, so I like to think of sometimes when we take this on, it’s hard, but it’s also a playground of our own.

self-discovery and our own, you know, growth in this. And it it it it’s been incremental. I think it’s been part of my journey and story. And I think if someone were to go and find my Instagram now, like they’d be like, my God, I could never do that. It didn’t start there, right? It was again, it was step by step slowly building and gaining the confidence.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (36:18)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I love that. That’s not a cop-out answer at all. You know, it’s a shout out to the other side of our field that we should value, right? Yeah, yeah. That’s totally okay.

Dr. Tay (36:21)
Okay. Right. I exactly, exactly.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (36:26)
Nice, nice. Yeah. And that to that makes sense. I mean, I don’t know anyone who does this kind of thing who jumped into it really confidently. You know, it’s always like awkward videos at first and like the lighting’s terrible and you don’t know what to say. And then, you know, you get better at it as you go along and you get more confident and build more things.

Dr. Tay (36:46)
Yeah. It does. Right.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (36:46)
comes a lot easier. So that’s just how it goes. Yeah. Nice.

So at this point, is that your primary kind of marketing engine? Are you doing any like Google ads or psych today or I mean any of the traditional stuff that people think about?

Dr. Tay (37:01)
Psychology today, I did start talking specifically for virtual practice. I started that right away.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (37:07)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (37:08)
In Psychology Today, you can add alternate locations. And

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (37:12)
Yes.

Dr. Tay (37:13)
So then I would do research of like where was there more of a private pay market and like trying to

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (37:18)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (37:19)
Figure that out and putting different locations of some of the SciPack states. In

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (37:23)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (37:23)
the beginning, I definitely got a few. I have noticed a big difference, but I also have to own, like, I have not touched it.

Right. Like I’m not going in and optimizing that algorithm and the marketing on it. I get pretty much nothing at this point. I keep it because I’m like, if I get one client, it pays for itself. But

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (37:43)
Yeah.

Dr. Tay (37:45)
Yeah, so only that, no ads. ads have been something that I absolutely have thought about.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (37:52)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (37:52)
I’ve just been a little nervous. I haven’t been ready to like pull off the band-aid. There’s a lot to ads I think that can come into play. And I just I haven’t had the bandwidth to take that on. But it’s something like working with a business coach. We’ve been talking more and more about just like ads or even like meta ads. So like Facebook and

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (38:09)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (38:10)
Instagram probably would do really well for me because

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (38:13)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (38:14)
my organic content does well.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (38:17)
Yeah, yeah, that’s fair. That’s fair. Are so on the flip side, going back to the social media component, are you working or deliberately growing that audience still at this point? Yeah.

Dr. Tay (38:28)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I’ve had seasons where it does take a little bit more of a back seat.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (38:35)
Uh-huh.

Dr. Tay (38:36)
I kind of hit a lull, and what’s really interesting is then I saw a lull in my practice and it was a reminder of like, yeah, this is part of the engine. Yeah,

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (38:44)
You gotta stay on it. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (38:45)
that is driving it. but I also to be clear, I have my clinical practice, but I am trying to grow this educational side too and

resources and all of that. And so that’s some of the marketing comes from that as well. But I do think you

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (39:01)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (39:01)
have to stay current and fresh, like keep posting. I think

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (39:05)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (39:05)
That’s important to get pushed out to the algorithm.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (39:09)
Yeah, yeah, sure. So very practical question, but you know, working with and talking to people over the years who’ve tried to do something like this, we sometimes run into this problem, I guess, of like you said, clinical versus educational. And are these two separate businesses or are they under the same umbrella? And yes, you’re nodding, so

Dr. Tay (39:29)
Yeah, yeah. I have two separate LLCs. so this was something I talked with a lawyer about pretty early

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (39:35)
Yeah.

Dr. Tay (39:36)
On. So basically, and any non clinical revenue runs through like a coaching LLC as

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (39:42)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (39:43)
opposed to my private practice. there’s lots of disclaimers, things like that that go into everything. but really separating.

things out. Now, what will happen is sometimes people on like will buy these educational resources or even my podcast, for example. I don’t make money off of my podcasts other than it does become an indirect, you know, marketing funnel. you know, so sometimes people will come over from, you know, they found me more on the educational side. but and then I just, you know, follow HIPAA. They go into, you know,

At that point, they’re in my clinical practice.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (40:21)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (40:23)
It’s nuanced. I want to emphasize that. Like it is, it can be tricky. And I find as a whole, I think sometimes our field also can think too much about things, right? So then we we freeze, we do nothing as a result of it. Because I think a lot of us, like, it’s what makes us great entrepreneurs too, sometimes is being able to like.

You know, like, think about everything from all angles, but it also can create us getting stuck and not doing anything. And so I I I found it really helpful to hire a lawyer and really work through those those nuanced details. And she was able to tell me like, this is what it needs to look like. But she was very clear they had to be two separate businesses, two separate bank accounts, two separate bookkeeping, all of that.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (41:13)
Great, great. Yes, that totally makes sense. So maybe we flip to the clinical side of things. We’ve talked a lot about the business side, but I know people are interested in the clinical side too. So especially with testing, I feel like therapy is relatively self-explanatory. you know, a lot of us do virtual therapy, but you know, there are more questions with testing.

So maybe give an overview of your model and you know, what kind of how you structure the appointments, yeah, how you do your evaluations and we’ll just walk through what that looks like.

Dr. Tay (41:43)
Yeah.

I think one thing to know is I started it in one way. And then I’ve really been focusing too not only on the testing portion, but on the support after. So I’ll I’ll describe that because

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (41:54)
Hmm. Great.

Dr. Tay (41:57)
that was something that became really important to me. But the basics of it, like the actual testing stuff, I do a two hour clinical interview over Zoom with the parents.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (42:05)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (42:07)
Everything is done over Zoom. I do a three hour testing session with the kid.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (42:11)
Okay.

Dr. Tay (42:12)
and then I did an hour feedback. That was kind of the traditional model, obviously, questionnaires that I’m sending out. And then now I’ve added on two additional appointments where after the parents get the report, they get an additional feedback session to really process and then doing a child feedback session when it’s applicable. Like obviously, if it’s a toddler.

That’s not happening, but depends and how to talk to them, their kids about the diagnosis, support them. I also cause I run a concierge practice, they also get more access to me in between testing appointments. So we do like a a text message thread where if I’m like I ask them a question, they’re not sure of the answer, they can update me that way and share information that way. They can email.

And then obviously I’m requesting records. That’s pretty standard, but I also allow them to share home videos with me too. That’s something that parents really love. And honestly,

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (43:07)
Mm-hmm. Love them. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (43:11)
one thing I’d encourage in a virtual model too, especially if you’re feeling unsure of like, am I gonna get enough data? Is

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (43:18)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (43:18)
having parents share home videos, either like things they feel are important, or if you’re like, hey, you said you know, you are seeing a lot of stimming behavior.

I didn’t see any of that. Can you show me what that looks like? Can you get that on video? and

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (43:31)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (43:33)
it helps them feel really heard in all of it. But there’s a lot of communication going on. The other piece that I want to briefly mention is I obviously sometimes the care coordination of this is really difficult in the management. I do have a

Clinical assistant. She was a psychometrist by training. She’s not doing any of my testing, but she’ll do like all the questionnaires, contacting, releases, paperwork. but the other pieces.

I was finding it hard sometimes to hop on phone calls, like with teachers, sometimes with other providers too. Like they just don’t have time. And so I developed an open-ended questionnaire. We call it our qualitative report form. And it’s truly asking intentional open-ended questions. What do you notice is this child’s strengths? What do you notice is their support needs? Have you noticed any autistic trades? Have you noticed any ADHD trades? And people might be like, isn’t that your job?

It is so fascinating though to hear them say no to autism, but then all through everything else, they’re describing all of these autistic traits. And so having these quotes, like I don’t care if they know how to categorize it correctly. but being able where they write versus just filling in like a standardized questionnaire

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (44:48)
Sure.

Dr. Tay (44:49)
has been actually really, really helpful too.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (44:52)
Yeah, I could see that. we’ve that’s funny. We were just talking about that last week in our testing consultation to

Dr. Tay (44:58)
Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (44:58)
develop or utilize a form when we can’t get in touch with folks for interviews. Yeah.

Dr. Tay (45:02)
Yeah, I highly recommend. Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (45:04)
That’s great. That’s great. What are you doing in those three hours of the testing session?

Dr. Tay (45:10)
Yeah, so pretty it depends on the age. but we’re either doing an IQ or a developmental assessment. So for IQ, I’m using the Rios two.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (45:19)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (45:19)
and then developmental, I’m using the DC two.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (45:22)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (45:23)
so we’ll do that. Then again, it also go ahead.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (45:27)
Well, I assume you pick those deliberately for like ease of administration over virtual, is that correct?

Dr. Tay (45:32)
That’s exactly it. Yeah. So the Rios 2, you know, is designed to be able to do over telehealth. so you just share your screen on Zoom. I love it and it’s really easy to use. It’s also a pretty quick measure, which is nice. And you still get I still get really good data. And then the DC2, I decided to do that one because I like that it’s a mix of how you can score it between parent report and direct observation.

And then also you’re not having to send all the materials over and, like, do everything. So like I might be able to go through and score a bunch of things about language I already observed and then ask the parent questions or say to the parent, like, Hey, can you have your kid do this? so I like that you can get the data in multiple ways, and that’s how it was standardized. So that was very intentional too.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (46:22)
Great, great. Okay, so you’re doing an IQ andor developmental measure and

Dr. Tay (46:26)
Yeah.

Yeah. And then depending on the age of the child, we’re doing some type of autism specific testing. the options in the battery are the Tela ASDPs, which was developed out of Vanderbilt.

The MIGDOS, which I feel like people talk a lot about as well. The one I hear less of, and I actually found this through another psychologist, is it’s called the Avabo, the adapted

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (46:50)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (46:51)
Virtual autism behavior observation. So it’s adapted off of the ADOS. I believe it comes out of, I think it’s

Columbus, I think it’s OSU. it might be Cincinnati. I always forget, but one of the Ohio universities, they adapted it. but it’s it’s doing a lot of like basically the ADOS type tasks.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (47:12)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (47:13)
But you don’t send them stuff. It’s not like the BOSA where you have to mail mail materials. I can talk about in a second mailing materials though, in general for other types of testing.

But then you we score the cars too for any of those. and then I would say I I do a lot of just like informal behavioral observations, you know, like watching the parent and child interact and play together, seeing how they, you know, interact with me, if they’re able to do kind of clinical interviewing questions, doing those. So sometimes too, I might like.

Pull some of the questions from the MiGDOS or pull some of the questions from the Avabo, even if I’m doing the opposite measure, because I like those questions. I want to see, you know, how they’re doing. And then sometimes too, again, it really depends on the age, but I’ll do the questionnaires with them in person. So if I’m doing a scared, I I actually have them like answer the question, but then I’ll do follow-up.

Questions from it. Sometimes I’ll even share the screen. Sometimes I find that too overwhelming, but I’ll have them answer, you know, and I’ll put a little thing on screen that says like zero equals never, one equals sometimes, two equals often. And I’m going through that with them. So they have that visual.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (48:33)
Yeah, yeah, I gotcha. I gotcha. Great, great. So it sounds like I’m just kind of tracking in my mind that the cognitive testing there’s an IQ component, but that’s really the only cognitive testing that you’re doing in these evals. Is that fair? Yeah.

Dr. Tay (48:45)
Correct. Yeah.

Yeah. So these are not like full neuropsychological evals. there are other assessments that you definitely can do virtually. I feel like there’s been more of a push to standardize some of these assessments as well. academic testing will do periodically if there, you know, if learning disability is suspected. that I’m using the KTEA.

And then we mail the protocols to them. So I double seal them in an envelope and then they get mailed to them and I ask them to not open the inside envelope until we’re in testing together. So

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (49:20)
Mm. I gotcha.

Is that what you meant when you mentioned mailing materials? That’s the process. Yeah.

Dr. Tay (49:25)
Yeah, that’s

That’s at this point the only thing I’ve chosen to do. I have done consults with people and then they’ve chosen to do like the BOSA has like set materials where they have a set and they’ll mail them out and then have the parent mail mail them back. that is not something that I’ve found the incremental value of personally, but you definitely

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (49:45)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (49:45)
could do that as an option too.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (49:48)
Yeah, yeah, that’s fair. That’s fair. And should I ask this at the beginning, but are you working primarily with kids and teens or are you seeing adults as well?

Dr. Tay (49:56)
I see kids. and then I have another psychologist in my practice. at this point we’re not seeing teens right now. She was, but she will see adults. so that’s more her her specialization. Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (50:09)
Yeah, yeah, that’s fair. So pointed question, but I kinda have to ask it. Like, how do you

Dr. Tay (50:13)
Yeah. Go ahead.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (50:15)
work through I’m sure you’ve gotten some kind of disagreement or work through some thoughts or feelings around like there are folks out there that say, How can you do an autism assessment remotely when, you know, so much data, you know, so much of it is like the social aspect. Like how do you gauge that remotely when there’s this

you know, camera slash internet medium in between you and the client. How do you think and

Dr. Tay (50:41)
Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (50:41)
talk through that?

Dr. Tay (50:43)
I mean, one thing that I will say though is no method is perfect. Bringing them into a foreign environment, interacting with a foreign person, like you might not also get a good representation of who they are. Like, is anxiety coming into play? You know, masking is a really big topic right now. You know, how are they masking?

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (51:02)
Sure.

Dr. Tay (51:03)
I will say a lot of times I find that kids tend to unmask.

During these evaluations much more rapidly because they’re in their comfortable environment. But it’s also watching the parent-child interaction, for example, that becomes a really big piece. This is where those home videos can be really helpful. But then also hearing what they’re like in other settings. But I do think that sometimes we as like if you do autism testing, it’s become such the norm.

Like, you have to have the ADOS. This is the gold standard. And I feel like a lot of times we’ve become so rigid on that that we’re missing what the ADOS actually is, is it truly is a collection of behavioral observations. And while yes, adding the computer adds another layer to it, at the same point, like you still can observe so much and like still be able to see.

again, that interaction style. and so I I think some of it is just having more of a flexible mindset about how you’re collecting data and how you’re interpreting that data, I think becomes important in this.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (52:18)
Certainly, certainly. Yeah. That’s well said. Yeah, I think we forget about that, that you know, we really hold the in office evaluation at the, you know, at the top of the pyramid as far as, you know, efficacy and whatnot. But yeah, we’re dealing with other factors there too. people are sometimes kids are sometimes a lot more uncomfortable outside their home and it’s a new environment and it’s a doctor’s office and that can you know, even you know, masking or

No masking, even just like anxiety or w you know, whatever shyness or something can go a long way. So

Dr. Tay (52:51)
Right.

And yeah. And one other sorry, one other comment that I have too about this is thinking about, you know, I think overall, like we wanna have more of this flexible mindset and realize that there are so many ways to be able to assess, like in autism, particularly, that diagnostic criteria. And some of it too is what’s representative of of that day-to-day.

And I will say I get a lot of commentary from parents. We do a lot of second opinion evaluations where these kids have gone in office

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (53:25)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (53:26)
and they’re told their child’s not autistic. And then they come back and they’re like, I feel like something is missing. And a lot of parents will reflect back to us like, I feel like you actually got to see my kid for who they are. versus

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (53:39)
Mm.

Dr. Tay (53:40)
in this testing session, I felt like that clinician got a different version.

Of them. And so I think there’s value with both. This is not me saying that in person isn’t great. There’s things that I do enjoy in person, but I also think there’s also really valuable things virtually. You think about a kid too, maybe that has such intense anxiety or meltdowns, they might not be able to leave the house. Well, what now if they can access an evaluation virtually and they don’t actually have to go to this place? Like the parent could be nervous about transporting them, for example.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (54:14)
Mm. Mm-hmm. These are great points. Yeah. And I don’t I mean, I want to be super clear. Like, I don’t know you’re kind of convincing me, but I don’t know if pressed, if I would say, yes, I’m in favor of virtual evaluations, more so than not. But this is it’s important to talk through these nuances, right? I mean, I like that you are bringing up these points. And

Dr. Tay (54:35)
Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (54:35)
like I said, it is it’s compelling in a lot of ways, right? It’s

Dr. Tay (54:38)
Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (54:39)
got me thinking.

Dr. Tay (54:40)
I do think a mindset shift though. I had to go through this myself. And actually I’ve trained at different times I’ve had clinicians work in the practice and I watched every single one of them go through this. The way

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (54:50)
Mm.

Dr. Tay (54:50)
we are trained as psychologists too is especially early in training with all these standardized standardized assessments. Of course, we have to maintain standardization, but sometimes we get

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (55:01)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (55:01)
really rigid in how we have to do that.

And so it is

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (55:05)
Right.

Dr. Tay (55:05)
a mindset shift again of how we’re looking at the data. We can’t take our in-person approach and just suddenly think, virtual is gonna.

you know, be exactly the same. I think that’s some of it. I ask parents a lot of questions, like, or I’ll have parents text

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (55:22)
Mm.

Dr. Tay (55:22)
me after, you know, and they’re like, hey, they were rubbing their feet the entire time, you know, and

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (55:27)
Mm.

Dr. Tay (55:28)
like that’s in a helpful data point for me that maybe I can’t see on camera. So it’s also a mindset shift that has to come with this.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (55:36)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That’s a great point. Yeah. I love this. I love this. So many good things in this conversation. are there folks that you turn away, like folks who are not good candidates for a virtual evaluation?

Dr. Tay (55:49)
This is usually where I’m talking on a consult call with that individual, like parent or the individual themselves. you know, there are some kids that are absolutely like, I will not be on camera.

You know, that is a factor that comes into play. I think sometimes too, there’s parents that are just really skeptical of the process and I wanna share this information with them.

And at the same time, my job is not to convince them. I want to share them. And I always say on all my consult calls, like, I want to give you the information so you can make an informed decision that is best for your family. So I’m not in convincing mode. If they’re skeptical about it, then it’s probably not gonna work. and so that’s where I really focus is do they feel good about it? And do I also feel like I can accommodate that profile, you know, on through a virtual setting.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (56:44)
Yeah, yeah, that’s reasonable. Yeah. Thanks for thanks for talking through that. let’s see. I asked a lot of questions. Let me talk about pricing. This is interesting. So

Dr. Tay (56:53)
Yeah, sure.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (56:54)
When you’re virtual, you know, typically a lot of us price our evals based on the local market.

Dr. Tay (56:59)
Mm.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (56:59)
When there’s no local market, so to speak, I’m curious how you approached pricing. Even if you don’t want to give specific numbers, that’s fine. But you know, how did you approach this knowing there was no like anchor in your local area?

Dr. Tay (57:11)
I still looked at various areas just to get a ballpark. I, and you may disagree with this, but like I think sometimes though that we rely so much on that. And what we forget it like the local pricing and like what the going rate is. I think what is more important than that is.

We are not selling a product. And this comes this goes to a lot of business like psychology

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (57:38)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (57:39)
and business mindset. This is how we think as clinicians. we’re selling this eval. We actually are not selling the eval. We are selling the

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (57:44)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (57:46)
transformation of that evaluation, that clarification, understanding their child or or the adult understanding themselves, what the next steps are.

That is what we’re selling. We’re actually selling a transformation. And I think a lot of times when we get stuck on pricing, it’s because we’re so focused on that product, product, product that we forget like the impact that this has on the individual’s life and what we truly are providing as a service. So

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (58:15)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (58:16)
that that’s one piece. But there is, of course, there is something, you know, and like.

The market will tell you if you’re overpriced. The market also tells you if you’re underpriced. If you potentially, like you also have to pull your values into this too. And that’s something I’m

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (58:31)
Uh-huh.

Dr. Tay (58:31)
always weighing. where am I at? That’s usually if I’m doing a price increase, it’s because I am feeling, you know, like too too large of a caseload where it is burning me out and it’s sacrificing

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (58:43)
Mm, mm.

Dr. Tay (58:45)
My quality of care for the people that are hiring me. but I I feel like you have to bring both into play. So I did when I started my practice, I started at a much lower rate and I’ve slowly built over time. And I started at a much lower rate, one, to gain some momentum. And then two, to also feel confident in what I was sharing as the transformation and what I was saying and not hemming and hawing around it. Cause

People feel that energy. And if you’re not confident, why should they be confident in your pricing and what you’re delivering? So I slowly went from there, but I did recently do a complete model shift where I went from this traditional model. and more I’d say more within the realm of what the market was was saying.

To developing my own model where not only are we doing the traditional model of testing, but I’m also supporting them a ton on the back end. Like I I didn’t mention this, but even finding them providers, like going and finding a specific provider, contacting that person, like, you know, is this a good fit for you? but that’s part of the transformation is parents were feeling lost. And so that has more value to it as well. And so I do think we get.

A little stuck on what are the numbers, but it’s more you feeling confident, you having a pulse on the market. And then also what transformation are you providing to that individual that you’re doing the evaluation for?

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:00:18)
Yeah, yeah. I couldn’t actually I you said at the beginning, you don’t know if I would agree with you. And I completely agree with you. Yeah. All

Dr. Tay (1:00:21)
Are you okay. Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:00:24)
of those things I am completely in agreement with you. Yeah. Like I talk about that all the time. Like we are not selling this product. We are selling the outcome and the experience

Dr. Tay (1:00:32)
Love it.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:00:33)
of the evaluation. I would also add, you know, like we we have to sort of v build in the value of our expertise as well. You know, like we’re not

Again, not selling like the administration of these tests and whatever and like even the time. It’s the you know, the knowledge and the expertise and the experience and the judgment that that we bring to it as well. You know, it’s kind of

Dr. Tay (1:00:56)
I think we

undervalue ourselves as a field a lot. And unfortunately, I think the insurance system doesn’t help that that situation,

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:01:04)
Sure.

Dr. Tay (1:01:05)
you know, of like reimbursement rates and all of that. But we have so much value and our evaluations create so much impact for the client in front of us. Like

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:01:15)
Yeah.

Dr. Tay (1:01:15)
it is a ripple effect that is going to

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:01:17)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tay (1:01:17)
impact them for many, many years to come.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:01:20)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I’m right with you. I’m right with you. we should be hanging out more, Taylor. Yeah, this is a good conversation and I feel

Dr. Tay (1:01:28)
Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:01:28)
like we’re aligned on a lot of things and could talk

Dr. Tay (1:01:30)
For sure, for sure.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:01:31)
about a lot of things. Yeah. This has been great. I know we could keep going, you know, and pull on a lot of these threads and go deeper. But for folks, I’m I’m guessing folks are gonna have more questions, want to learn more. what’s the best way to do that? How do they find you? What are you up to? Tell

Dr. Tay (1:01:45)
Yeah,

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:01:46)
us.

Dr. Tay (1:01:46)
absolutely. so my website is dr tailorday.com. Like if you want to kind of see it’s going through a revamp right now, but if you want to see, you know, that and all I have to offer, because I know I kind of was jumping around today. social media is a great place to find me. so I’m the period DR period Tay on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. you’re also welcome, you know, to reach out to me via email.

if there are any follow-up questions, I do some consultation. But one of the things I know, Jeremy, that we were talking about is like this virtual piece, right? I am actually in the process of putting a continuing ed together, with

the neurodiversity podcast with Emily. And we’re putting it together to really be able to deep dive into all of this more. This is one of the things I was doing a lot of consultations around, you know, and like being able for more

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:02:39)
Huh?

Dr. Tay (1:02:40)
people to learn about this model and the ins and outs. So that

Could be an option if you’re looking for continuing it as well. but I I’m an open book. I love being able to share information. I also love being a resource for families if you work with families where autism is being diagnosed. my podcast Evolve with Dr. Tay could be another great resource to even send to them to help them along in this journey too.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:03:07)
Yeah, that’s amazing. Yeah, there are lots of ways, it sounds like to

Dr. Tay (1:03:10)
Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:03:11)
learn from you. And yeah, I’ve definitely sent folks to you who wanted to talk about virtual practices. and

Dr. Tay (1:03:16)
Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:03:17)
I’m so glad to have you as a resource here in our community. So yeah, thanks for doing that and thanks for being here

Dr. Tay (1:03:21)
Absolutely. Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:03:24)
for our conversation.

Dr. Tay (1:03:25)
Thank you so much. This was awesome. And I I yeah, I love everything you get to do. So I was so honored to be asked to be on this podcast.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:03:34)
Great, well hopefully we will meet in person one day. But for now

Dr. Tay (1:03:37)
Yeah.

Dr. Jeremy Sharp (1:03:37)
We’ll stay virtual.

Dr. Tay (1:03:38)
Yeah.

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